An Interview With Greg Prato: Part 1

Greg Prato has written for Rolling Stone Magazine and All Music Guide. He's written books about the early years of MTV, Kiss drummer Eric Carr and Blind Melon frontman Shannon Hoon. He is also a huge Jets fan. His lastest book is Sack Exchange: The Definitive Oral History of the 1980's New York Jets. I conducted a phone interview and we touched on various topics of the Jets of those years. Here is Part 1 of that interview.

What was it about this era of Jets football that made you want to cover it?

Well, I first became a Jets fan around 1981. That’s when I started following football, so I followed the Jets pretty much throughout the 80’s. I was definitely heartbroken when they left Shea Stadium because I’m from Long Island so that was kind of sad when that happened, but I couldn’t stop watching the Jets.

As I explain in the book, it was around that time 1981, 1982 that I started following sports. The Jets in football, the Mets in baseball and the Islanders in hockey and in the 80’s the Mets and Islanders managed to come through with either Stanley Cups or World Series wins, but the Jets came close several times but never could finish the deal and I was always curious as a fan what exactly prevented them whether it would be the Mud Bowl against the Dolphins or the roughing the passer penalty against the Browns in ‘86-’87. So I just figured I’d put together a book.

Up till now I’ve pretty much have done rock music writing. I write for Rolling Stone and All Music Guide and I’ve done a bunch of books about rock music and I figured ‘Why not take a break from rock writing and do a book about the Jets?’ so that’s how Sack Exchange came about.

Why do you think this era isn’t remembered more?

It’s kind of difficult to say why this era doesn’t get talked about too much. Probably the most obvious thing is that they never got to a Super Bowl. If they did there’d probably be more talk about it, but it’s difficult to say why because the Sack Exchange was definitely one of the most feared defenses at the time. I interviewed a few quarterbacks from some other teams from the time and they both go on record saying the Jets were a much feared team at the time.

I wouldn’t say they are completely forgotten.  I think fans of the Jets remember the Sack Exchange but maybe people outside of New York may have forgotten a little bit about them.

How much does the legacy of Joe Namath permeate Jets history, especially the 1980’s?

I think the legacy of Namath continues right up until today for the simple fact that he’s the only Jets quarterback to have been to the Super Bowl with the Jets also and won it, besides of course guaranteeing it. It’s a pretty important part. After he retired in ’77 supposedly didn’t have a whole lot to do with the Jets and it wasn’t until a Monday Night game in 1984 that he came to Giants Stadium. They retired his number and I think that was when he started to get more involved with the Jets.

With this book, while the focus is the 80’s, I wanted to tell a bit of the backstory.  There’s a long chapter about how the Jets came into being in the 60’s, a bit of Super Bowl III and also what went wrong in the early 70’s.  The book picks up from 1976 until 1989 and we go year-by-year explaining the late 70’s how that shaped the 80’s teams and each year in the 80’s what exactly happened.

How important were the years 1976-1980 in shaping the Jets of the 1980’s?

It was very important because each one of those years they had very important draft picks coming in, including Marvin Powell, Chris Ward, Wesley Walker, Richard Todd, Greg Buttle and then Marty Lyons and Joe Klecko. Almost every single year there was a very important piece to the puzzle that would eventually become a major part of those early to mid-80’s teams that had success in the playoffs. Although they didn’t have a winning season in those years, they had a couple of .500 seasons in ’78 and ’79. If maybe one or two plays went their way they probably could have gotten into the playoffs one of those years. The late 70’s was definitely an important building block for the teams that would find success in the 80’s for the Jets.

Which Jet was more important in the leading the charge back to respectability and almost winning a Super Bowl?

It’s hard to pinpoint just to one. I think that the Jets of the 80’s were definitely more of a team. I think a lot of people would point to Joe Klecko because I think he was the leader of the defense, although if you talk to Mark Gastineau he may think he was the leader and some people would say he was the leader. But it seems like Joe Klecko was probably the most feared out there on the field. He was also the most respected in the locker room. That said, you could also make a case for Joe Fields, who was their center. He was called “The General” on the field because he was calling a lot of plays. He was also a pretty big part, obviously Gastineau, just because he was racking up all those sacks. They were definitely a team, but if you had to pick one, I’d probably go with Klecko.

How much do you think playing in Namath’s shadow affected Richard Todd?

I think it definitely affected him and also as you learn in the book, one contributing factor to some of Richard Todd’s struggles was that for a period of time in the late 70’s and early 80’s, pretty much until Joe Walton became the offensive coordinator, almost every single year Richard Todd had a different offensive coordinator.  That definitely rattles a quarterback, especially a quarterback who’s young and trying to develop and is also developing in the shadow of Namath.

I know Todd mostly gets the short end of the stick with people just remembering the Mud Bowl and his bad season in 1983, but he was definitely a huge part of why the Jets had success in ‘81 and also ’82. He was also a huge part for those two playoff wins in the 1982 playoffs against the Bengals and also against the Raiders. He played well in both those games and it was a huge touchdown to Wesley Walker in that game against the Raiders that pretty much sealed it for the Jets and made them win that game.

Bobby Jackson said that if Matt Robinson were quarterback, he’d have a Super Bowl ring. Do you think Matt Robinson was the more popular choice?

It seemed like it was pretty much split between the fans wanting Robinson and the fans wanting Todd. I think it was just a matter of which quarterback was playing better at the time. But it definitely would have been interesting to see what would have happened with Robinson if he didn’t get hurt. What happened was he said he was injured one way and it turned out he got injured horsing around with a player wrestling or something like that, and then he wound up lying to Walt Michaels who was the coach at the time, and then he found out what happened. Robinson wound up never playing again for the Jets and wound up getting traded.

It was a pretty interesting quote because when Robinson played was actually prior to me becoming a fan of the Jets. I actually had to go back to YouTube and dig up some old clips of him playing. He definitely seemed like he could have been a great quarterback for the Jets. That said, Todd also had has good points too and also had his good games. It’s always kind of hard to tell exactly what would have happened if Robinson didn’t get injured.

What do you think made Walt Michaels so revered by the players?

It seemed like a lot of players respected him because he backed the players. He also was very loyal to them. He also seemed to be a man of his word as well, so I think the players really rallied around him. I believe a few of the people I interviewed even compare him to Rex Ryan. Also the fact that he was a former player himself, the players probably respected that a lot.

As a fan looking back, I think that’s definitely one of the biggest mistakes the Jets ever made was getting rid of him when they did. A lot of the players I spoke to in the book said that if Walt Michaels wasn’t fired after that 1982 season, there’s not a doubt in their mind that there would have been a Super Bowl appearance by the Jets in the next few years. Him leaving just put the whole team in turmoil and although Joe Walton was a great offensive coordinator, he never really made the transition to a great head coach. I think that was what probably prevented the Jets from finally getting over the hump and finally making it to the Super Bowl.

How was Joe Walton different from Michaels?

I believe it was Bobby Jackson who said that Walt Michaels had the players’ backs whereas Joe Walton didn’t.  I can’t say personally because I obviously wasn’t there, but it seems like that was pretty much the consensus from the players. Richard Todd talks about it in the book and that he pretty much agrees with what Bobby Jackson said that he didn’t really back the players much. That said, Joe Walton did have his successful years with the Jets like the 1986 season when they almost went to the AFC Championship Game. I’m sure there are also players who would probably praise Joe Walton. I guess it’s pretty much up to the player, but that was pretty much what was said, that Walt Michaels backed the players a little bit better.

How close was the Sack Exchange off the field?

It seems like Gastineau wasn’t that close with Klecko or Lyons and Klecko and Lyons were good friends. Gastineau says that Abdul Salaam was one of his best friends on the team. I think it was Gastineau who says that he gets along a lot better now with Klecko and Lyons, like when they meet up for reunion events. It seemed like at the time that Gastineau’s sack dancing and everything rubbed Klecko completely the wrong way. It seems like now they can get along a little bit better.  Maybe they don’t have to see each other every day and work side by side; they can just get together as friends.

Who do you think is the best player that never got or continues to not get the recognition he deserves?

Joe Klecko. I think he should be in the Hall of Fame and there’s even a chapter in the book where people go on record saying there’s not a doubt in their minds that he should be in the Hall of Fame. For this book, I interviewed players from the Dolphins, Bills and Patriots and all of them say the same thing; they don’t understand why Klecko’s not in the Hall of Fame. He was completely feared. None of the other players on the Dolphins or any of the other teams the Jets faced looked particularly forward to playing against Klecko.

I interviewed Randy Rasmussen who also played for the Jets. He also said that practicing against Klecko was the hardest player he ever had to face on the field. He said he was happy that he never had to play against him in an actual game. So Klecko would be my choice.

To find out more about the work of Greg Prato, please click on the following link: http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/gregprato

Part 2 of the interview will be released tomorrow. Stay Tuned!