An Interview With Greg Prato: Part 2

How much did the strike of 1987 hurt the Jets?

It seems like whenever there is a strike it seems to separate a team.  That specific strike they (the owners) forced players to cross the strike, so the player that was hard up for money really had no choice but to cross it. I know that Gastineau rubbed some people the wrong way, but then again Klecko eventually also crossed the line too. You can’t just say that it was Mark who did that. I can kind of see both sides. I can see that players should stand together, but I’m also not standing in a person’s shoes when they have to pay bills and rent and everything. I can kind of see both sides, but I think that strike was the final nail in the coffin because the Jets never had success again in the 80’s after that.

Do you think Gastineau was looking for a way out when Brigitte Nielson got sick and he then retired?

It’s kind of hard to tell with Mark exactly what was going on. I can’t speak for him, but it was really just a shame because if he didn’t step away when he did, there’s not a doubt in my mind that he would also be in the Hall of Fame. He pretty much shot himself in the foot by doing that. I guess he wasn’t thinking clearly or maybe he was too caught up in the Hollywood glitz at the time. It’s hard for me to say if that’s why he stepped away, but it was not a very good move on his part because it cost him going to the Hall of Fame.

As a Jets fan, what player did you most want to talk to?

Probably Klecko and Gastineau; I got some pretty cool information from Wesley Walker and Richard Todd. Bobby Jackson had some very cool things to say. Greg Buttle had some cool stories to tell. As a fan of the Jets back then, I can’t really say that I had one specific favorite player. I liked the Jets as a team and it was cool speaking to all the players and hearing their memories. It was also interesting to see what they are doing today. There’s a chapter in the book which talks about what all the Jets players are doing now and it’s a wide range.

Were there players, coaches and other figures that were hesitant about the book? Did you have to earn their trust?

I have to say that all the players were a great help. I think by speaking to me, they could tell I was a fan.  I’ve written for sites like Rolling Stone so I could give them links to my previous writing and I’ve also done books, so I could also send them links to some of my books so they could see that I was in fact, a writer.  I wouldn’t say that they were hesitant. Most of them were pretty forthcoming with their stories. I was definitely pleasantly surprised that everyone was very kind and very forthcoming and suggesting some other people I should speak to for the book and forwarding all their contact info. It was a very good process from beginning to end.

Were there times where you struggled between being a fan and being a journalist?

As a fan I always look at the Dolphins as kind of evil. There’s a team that prevented the Jets from getting to the Super Bowl. Speaking to our good friend A.J. Duhe was kind of weird, but he turned out to be a very fun guy. The same could be said for Bob Baumhower who was very kind and very cool. What’s interesting is that both Dolphins and Jets players back then were actually friends, which I didn’t know and couldn’t even fathom. But when you think about it, a lot of these players went to college together, and they’re friends at that point and then they’re drafted by different teams. It was definitely interesting to hear from those Dolphins players and hear their perspective on what it was like playing against the Jets back then.

Was that the most surprising thing you learned during the interview process?

That was surprising. There was also the story about Joe Walton taking over the team and how some players weren’t that big of a fan of how he was going about things. Greg Buttle tells some funny stories where he’s pretty honest about things that supposedly went on that he thought weren’t very good.  There’s also a chapter about steroids in which some players admit that there was steroid use, some of them say there wasn’t. You’re not too sure who to believe. There are also two chapters where I asked everyone who was their toughest team and who were their toughest players to play against and it was interesting to hear who they picked.

Who were some of your favorite interviews?

Greg Buttle had some really great stories; some of the stories he tells about when Joe Walton took over the team are pretty funny. Wesley Walker I felt was pretty honest. He also told some pretty cool stories on what the team was like and how some people got along and some people didn’t and how the team split up after a while. It was also interesting to hear Gastineau’s view on things. He hasn’t really been interviewed much on everything that happened. As a fan, it was interesting to hear him go on record about his viewpoints and what exactly happened.

Are there differences between covering music and covering sports?

With my books in the past, the same with this book, I start out with a set list of questions on a piece of paper. As the book progresses with more and more interviews I do, by about midway through I’m not even looking at the piece of paper. I pretty much have the questions stored in my brain at that point. Of course I’m talking about sports instead of rock music. It wasn’t that drastically different. The subject matter was different but it was the same stuff I usually follow for an interview.

What do you like about the Oral History format?

What I like most about the format is, before I was even a writer, the thing I liked when reading magazine articles were the Q & A setups, because then you’re really getting the story straight from the horse’s mouth. The problem I have with a lot of books is that you’re having an author tell you his or her viewpoint of what exactly happened. If the author wasn’t there then I’m not the biggest fan of hearing what someone’s take is on something. I’d rather get it straight from the people that were actually there.  That’s what I like about the oral history format.  That’s what I’ve used a lot for my previous books.

I did a book about the grunge bands like Soundgarden and Nirvana called “Grunge is Dead” and that is the same setup. It’s definitely a setup that I use for the majority of my books because I think the reader can get the closest to the actual story as possible without actually being there.

Do you see yourself as a journalist or a historian? Do you see yourself as both or do you identify with one more than the other?

Of the books I’ve done so far, I can honestly say I was a fan of all the subjects I’ve written about. I’m probably a fan foremost and then a writer or I’m just a very lucky fan who is able to speak to all his favorite players and musicians as well.

What do you hope people get out of this book?

It’d be good if in the future when people talk about great Jets teams that they start including the ’82 team a little bit more because they made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game and also because of the fact that when I interviewed players from the Dolphins and other teams from that era they all said how certain Jets were feared. Whenever you speak of great Jets teams, you definitely have to include the ’81 and ’82 team.

Are there any other projects you’re currently working on?

Right now, I have a couple of projects that I can’t quite confirm just yet. Earlier in the year I did a book about the early days of MTV called “MTV Ruled the World” for which I interviewed members of “The Police,” “Judas Priest,” “Rush,” “Public Enemy,” “Heart,” and also some of the people that started the channel as well as some of the former VJ’s.  That’s one of my more recent books and that is also in the Oral History format. You can get that through Lulu.com. If you go to Lulu.com and search for Greg Prato, you’ll find several books that I did for them.

Do you think Rex Ryan’s Jets can top the Jets of the 1980’s as a book topic?

(Laughs) I would say yes, but I certainly hope that unlike the Jets of the 80’s that the Jets of today finally go to the Super Bowl and do finally win it.

For more information on Greg Prato, click on the following link:

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/gregprato

An Interview With Greg Prato: Part 1

Greg Prato has written for Rolling Stone Magazine and All Music Guide. He's written books about the early years of MTV, Kiss drummer Eric Carr and Blind Melon frontman Shannon Hoon. He is also a huge Jets fan. His lastest book is Sack Exchange: The Definitive Oral History of the 1980's New York Jets. I conducted a phone interview and we touched on various topics of the Jets of those years. Here is Part 1 of that interview.

What was it about this era of Jets football that made you want to cover it?

Well, I first became a Jets fan around 1981. That’s when I started following football, so I followed the Jets pretty much throughout the 80’s. I was definitely heartbroken when they left Shea Stadium because I’m from Long Island so that was kind of sad when that happened, but I couldn’t stop watching the Jets.

As I explain in the book, it was around that time 1981, 1982 that I started following sports. The Jets in football, the Mets in baseball and the Islanders in hockey and in the 80’s the Mets and Islanders managed to come through with either Stanley Cups or World Series wins, but the Jets came close several times but never could finish the deal and I was always curious as a fan what exactly prevented them whether it would be the Mud Bowl against the Dolphins or the roughing the passer penalty against the Browns in ‘86-’87. So I just figured I’d put together a book.

Up till now I’ve pretty much have done rock music writing. I write for Rolling Stone and All Music Guide and I’ve done a bunch of books about rock music and I figured ‘Why not take a break from rock writing and do a book about the Jets?’ so that’s how Sack Exchange came about.

Why do you think this era isn’t remembered more?

It’s kind of difficult to say why this era doesn’t get talked about too much. Probably the most obvious thing is that they never got to a Super Bowl. If they did there’d probably be more talk about it, but it’s difficult to say why because the Sack Exchange was definitely one of the most feared defenses at the time. I interviewed a few quarterbacks from some other teams from the time and they both go on record saying the Jets were a much feared team at the time.

I wouldn’t say they are completely forgotten.  I think fans of the Jets remember the Sack Exchange but maybe people outside of New York may have forgotten a little bit about them.

How much does the legacy of Joe Namath permeate Jets history, especially the 1980’s?

I think the legacy of Namath continues right up until today for the simple fact that he’s the only Jets quarterback to have been to the Super Bowl with the Jets also and won it, besides of course guaranteeing it. It’s a pretty important part. After he retired in ’77 supposedly didn’t have a whole lot to do with the Jets and it wasn’t until a Monday Night game in 1984 that he came to Giants Stadium. They retired his number and I think that was when he started to get more involved with the Jets.

With this book, while the focus is the 80’s, I wanted to tell a bit of the backstory.  There’s a long chapter about how the Jets came into being in the 60’s, a bit of Super Bowl III and also what went wrong in the early 70’s.  The book picks up from 1976 until 1989 and we go year-by-year explaining the late 70’s how that shaped the 80’s teams and each year in the 80’s what exactly happened.

How important were the years 1976-1980 in shaping the Jets of the 1980’s?

It was very important because each one of those years they had very important draft picks coming in, including Marvin Powell, Chris Ward, Wesley Walker, Richard Todd, Greg Buttle and then Marty Lyons and Joe Klecko. Almost every single year there was a very important piece to the puzzle that would eventually become a major part of those early to mid-80’s teams that had success in the playoffs. Although they didn’t have a winning season in those years, they had a couple of .500 seasons in ’78 and ’79. If maybe one or two plays went their way they probably could have gotten into the playoffs one of those years. The late 70’s was definitely an important building block for the teams that would find success in the 80’s for the Jets.

Which Jet was more important in the leading the charge back to respectability and almost winning a Super Bowl?

It’s hard to pinpoint just to one. I think that the Jets of the 80’s were definitely more of a team. I think a lot of people would point to Joe Klecko because I think he was the leader of the defense, although if you talk to Mark Gastineau he may think he was the leader and some people would say he was the leader. But it seems like Joe Klecko was probably the most feared out there on the field. He was also the most respected in the locker room. That said, you could also make a case for Joe Fields, who was their center. He was called “The General” on the field because he was calling a lot of plays. He was also a pretty big part, obviously Gastineau, just because he was racking up all those sacks. They were definitely a team, but if you had to pick one, I’d probably go with Klecko.

How much do you think playing in Namath’s shadow affected Richard Todd?

I think it definitely affected him and also as you learn in the book, one contributing factor to some of Richard Todd’s struggles was that for a period of time in the late 70’s and early 80’s, pretty much until Joe Walton became the offensive coordinator, almost every single year Richard Todd had a different offensive coordinator.  That definitely rattles a quarterback, especially a quarterback who’s young and trying to develop and is also developing in the shadow of Namath.

I know Todd mostly gets the short end of the stick with people just remembering the Mud Bowl and his bad season in 1983, but he was definitely a huge part of why the Jets had success in ‘81 and also ’82. He was also a huge part for those two playoff wins in the 1982 playoffs against the Bengals and also against the Raiders. He played well in both those games and it was a huge touchdown to Wesley Walker in that game against the Raiders that pretty much sealed it for the Jets and made them win that game.

Bobby Jackson said that if Matt Robinson were quarterback, he’d have a Super Bowl ring. Do you think Matt Robinson was the more popular choice?

It seemed like it was pretty much split between the fans wanting Robinson and the fans wanting Todd. I think it was just a matter of which quarterback was playing better at the time. But it definitely would have been interesting to see what would have happened with Robinson if he didn’t get hurt. What happened was he said he was injured one way and it turned out he got injured horsing around with a player wrestling or something like that, and then he wound up lying to Walt Michaels who was the coach at the time, and then he found out what happened. Robinson wound up never playing again for the Jets and wound up getting traded.

It was a pretty interesting quote because when Robinson played was actually prior to me becoming a fan of the Jets. I actually had to go back to YouTube and dig up some old clips of him playing. He definitely seemed like he could have been a great quarterback for the Jets. That said, Todd also had has good points too and also had his good games. It’s always kind of hard to tell exactly what would have happened if Robinson didn’t get injured.

What do you think made Walt Michaels so revered by the players?

It seemed like a lot of players respected him because he backed the players. He also was very loyal to them. He also seemed to be a man of his word as well, so I think the players really rallied around him. I believe a few of the people I interviewed even compare him to Rex Ryan. Also the fact that he was a former player himself, the players probably respected that a lot.

As a fan looking back, I think that’s definitely one of the biggest mistakes the Jets ever made was getting rid of him when they did. A lot of the players I spoke to in the book said that if Walt Michaels wasn’t fired after that 1982 season, there’s not a doubt in their mind that there would have been a Super Bowl appearance by the Jets in the next few years. Him leaving just put the whole team in turmoil and although Joe Walton was a great offensive coordinator, he never really made the transition to a great head coach. I think that was what probably prevented the Jets from finally getting over the hump and finally making it to the Super Bowl.

How was Joe Walton different from Michaels?

I believe it was Bobby Jackson who said that Walt Michaels had the players’ backs whereas Joe Walton didn’t.  I can’t say personally because I obviously wasn’t there, but it seems like that was pretty much the consensus from the players. Richard Todd talks about it in the book and that he pretty much agrees with what Bobby Jackson said that he didn’t really back the players much. That said, Joe Walton did have his successful years with the Jets like the 1986 season when they almost went to the AFC Championship Game. I’m sure there are also players who would probably praise Joe Walton. I guess it’s pretty much up to the player, but that was pretty much what was said, that Walt Michaels backed the players a little bit better.

How close was the Sack Exchange off the field?

It seems like Gastineau wasn’t that close with Klecko or Lyons and Klecko and Lyons were good friends. Gastineau says that Abdul Salaam was one of his best friends on the team. I think it was Gastineau who says that he gets along a lot better now with Klecko and Lyons, like when they meet up for reunion events. It seemed like at the time that Gastineau’s sack dancing and everything rubbed Klecko completely the wrong way. It seems like now they can get along a little bit better.  Maybe they don’t have to see each other every day and work side by side; they can just get together as friends.

Who do you think is the best player that never got or continues to not get the recognition he deserves?

Joe Klecko. I think he should be in the Hall of Fame and there’s even a chapter in the book where people go on record saying there’s not a doubt in their minds that he should be in the Hall of Fame. For this book, I interviewed players from the Dolphins, Bills and Patriots and all of them say the same thing; they don’t understand why Klecko’s not in the Hall of Fame. He was completely feared. None of the other players on the Dolphins or any of the other teams the Jets faced looked particularly forward to playing against Klecko.

I interviewed Randy Rasmussen who also played for the Jets. He also said that practicing against Klecko was the hardest player he ever had to face on the field. He said he was happy that he never had to play against him in an actual game. So Klecko would be my choice.

To find out more about the work of Greg Prato, please click on the following link: http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/gregprato

Part 2 of the interview will be released tomorrow. Stay Tuned!